Numbers Matter
What actions contribute to being a good Christian?
Linn Winters
Nov 26, 2017 37m
Why do membership numbers matter. In this sermon Pastor Winter focuses on two of the most important tasks involved in being a good Christian. The first and perhaps easiest is to focus on maturing in your faith. This includes spending more time in smaller more focused groups and areas of study. The second task, that many find more difficult,is sharing Christ with non-believers. He goes on to explain that increasing membership is a key way to gauge if you are reaching more people with the word of Christ. Video recorded at Chandler, Arizona.
TranscriptionmessageRegarding Grammar:
This is a transcription of the sermon. People speak differently than they write, and there are common colloquialisms in this transcript that sound good when spoken, and look like bad grammar when written.
This is a transcription of the sermon. People speak differently than they write, and there are common colloquialisms in this transcript that sound good when spoken, and look like bad grammar when written.
Linn Winters: 00:45 Hey cornerstone.
Linn Winters: 00:47 How you doing man?
Linn Winters: 00:51 Hey, as we get going today just uh, a big shout out to our San-Tan Campus, to our Scottsdale Campus man. Just, so glad you guys are a part of Cornerstone and, proud, man, just proud that you're with us and part of us on the deal.
Linn Winters: 01:05 So. Every once in a while. I'll have somebody come up to me, and they'll say. "You know Cornerstone is just all about the numbers" uh, to which I'll say, "Yeah, no, you're uh, no, you're absolutely right." And usually that gets met, gets met with a little bit of confusion, and then there comes kind of this sheepish, little, uh smile, or grin on their face. And then I say this, "We're all about the numbers because, every number is a person, and people, matter, to Jesus, so you, you better, you, you, absolutely. We are all about the numbers because, numbers are people, and people, matter, to our Jesus.
Linn Winters: 01:48 I, I, uh, about a year and a half ago, I was in a pastor's, uh, conference, I was teaching, a group of pastors in Australia and one of the pastors raises his hand and he says, " you know, do numbers really matter?" And I said, "Yes. Yes. They matter. Because, because, look, look, look. Every person, who's not in your church on Sunday, isn't figuring out Jesus. And, figuring out Jesus is a, big deal.
Speaker 6: 02:19 And a matter of fact, this is, this is, Heaven and Hell type conversation. This is a, big deal, if somebody doesn't, figure out Jesus.
Linn Winters: 02:29 There are, marriages, that are, sitting on the precipice of failure, and you have the answers. You have the Bible. You have scripture, that helps, understand, how, this whole thing, was designed to be between a man, and a woman. And, if they're sitting at home, there's no chance that marriage gets healed. And, the damage that happens, when it falls apart, in the children's lives, that are scarred by that moment. Yes, it matters.
Linn Winters: 03:08 There are teens. Living in rebellion. Who are gonna make decisions, that may cause regret for the rest of their lives. And it matters, that they're not, sitting in your church, having a discussion, about God and Jesus Christ and, what it; numbers matter. Because numbers are people, and Jesus cares, about people. Alright guys, here's the thing you got to know. This isn't just a, pastoral conversation. The truth is, numbers, have to matter to you, because, you ready for this? Because Jesus, commanded you, to care, about numbers. Matter of fact, grab your bibles, and go with me, to the book of Matthew.
Linn Winters: 03:55 If you're not familiar, you simply go to the right, start all the way to the back of your Bible, work to the left; you're going to find this book of Matthew. Matthew is the first book of the New Testament. It's the first of our gospels, the four books that tell us the life and teachings of Jesus. Matthew, Chapter 28; let me, give you the moment. So this is, literally, the end of Jesus' ministry. Matter of fact, these are the last few words in the Book of Matthew. Jesus had are, has already preached for three and a half years. He's already died on a cross, he's resurrected, he's shown himself to his disciples, and now he's getting ready to go to heaven and he says, "look, look, look, as I get ready to go, I'm handing this off to you. This, this now is yours, to do. And as you do this, here's what matters. This is, this is mission critical. So do these two things." See if you can see it. Matthew, Chapter 28, starting in verse 18, "then, Jesus came and he said to them, "all authority in Heaven and in Earth has been given to me. So, so, look, look, look, I'm kind of the boss. See I'm. I'm the guy in charge so I have, every right to say to you, this is what I want you to do. This, this IS the assignment.""
Linn Winters: 05:22 It's coming from the top.
Linn Winters: 05:24 "All authority, in heaven and earth, has been given to me, therefore, go and make disciples, of all nations. Baptizing them, in the name of the father, and the son, and the Holy Spirit. Teaching them to obey everything." So you, you don't get to, rip out passages you don't like. You don't get to go, hey, you know it's 2017, so come on. "Teach them to obey everything that I've commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very ends of the age." Ever had a teacher, uh, give you the, questions on the final exam? Anyone ever had that moment?
Linn Winters: 06:12 I mean, wait, wait, how cool would that teacher be? "Hey we're going to have a final on Friday. Let me give you the questions. Better yet let me give you the answers." Dude, I'm all in, right? That's, that's the best exam, ever!
Linn Winters: 06:29 You get, that's exactly what Jesus just did?
Linn Winters: 06:31 That Jesus said, "look here's the deal. I'm giving you, the exam questions," because, one day, every one of us is going to stand before him in heaven, and we're going to give an account of how we lived our lives. Matter of fact, First Corinthians, Chapter 3, describes that moment. It says, "it's kind of like a fire." And then, everything that I've, done in my life, is placed in the fire. And the things that I did that, you know just don't really matter, they don't add up to much. You know, whether or not, I chose PlayStation or X-box; fire. Right? Just, just doesn't matter.
Linn Winters: 07:09 But the things, that I did, that really counted scripture says, "survive the fire and they come out gold, silver, precious stone." Jesus just described to you, and me the two most important things that come out the other side. And they both involve, you ready? People. Jesus said, "these are the two biggest questions on the final exam. Did you, did you win people to me? Did you live a life in front of people that was so compelling? Were you open enough, with your faith, that you helped people, get from, doubting and misbelief to accepting and to, to the other side of the cross? Was your life about, helping people find me?" And then secondly, "was it about growing people up? Did you grow up spiritually? Did you become more and more and more like me? And did you help others, to grow up in their faith, to become stronger, and more vibrant in their Christian walk?" Jesus says, "those are the two, big questions on the final."
Linn Winters: 08:18 Here's what's surprising to me. I run into Christians all the time who say, "look, here's the deal. I'm all about evangelism." See I, I, I just have this,, natural ability to kind of bring Jesus up in any conversation I'm having, and you know, I'll be standing in line at Starbucks, and the gal will say, "here's your double Carmel Macchiato with foam on top," and, somehow I'm able to say, "Hey that reminds me of Jesus." And we just begin a spiritual conversation, and before you know it. And they go, "but, you know this whole growing people up thing, I mean that's a lot of work, and it's just slow, and it's step after step, and it's kind of tedious. So I just kind of do the part, you know, that comes natural and I always share my faith with people around me."
Linn Winters: 09:05 Other Christians say, "you know, huh. I just feel horribly ill equipped, to share my faith. I'm just so certain that someone's going to ask me a question, or they're going to go, "oh, you know, the Bible is full of inconsistency" and I'm, I'm gonna get challenged, and I'm not going to know what to say. But the growing up thing, man I'm, I'm, totally committed to going to Bible studies myself, and I'm committed to helping others understand that. So the whole growing up thing, I, uh man, I'm in."
Linn Winters: 09:30 Here's the deal. If you, only do half the exam, those are your Christians, "man I'm all about evangelists what I do" or "I'm all about growing," if you only do, 50 percent of the exam. What kind of grade do you get on the exam? See, I don't, I don't know what school you went to but the school I went to if you only completed half the exam that was a pretty bad grade.
Linn Winters: 09:58 You wanna hear something worse. I know Christians who aren't doing either side. They're not helping other people figure out their Jesus, and they're not growing much at all in their own lives, or in helping others.
Linn Winters: 10:11 If you fail to take the exam, if you don't even show up for the exam, what type of a grade do you get then?
Linn Winters: 10:29 Let me tell you something really, really cool. Because my guess is, is that there's an awful lot of us in this room and we go, "man Linn, this is hard, because I was going to tell ya, I'm probably struggling in both sides of this thing, and if you're telling me this is the question Jesus asks on the other side. I, I, I've got, I've got some work to do." Let me tell you something really, really, neat. When you get involved in church, when you become, an investor; no res-. You, You say, "look I'm going to do more than just sit in a seat, and be a spectator at church. I'm, I'm going to be a owner. I'm going to be in on this thing." You start profit sharing. You start being in, on everything that God is doing in this place when you move from spectator to owner. Let me see if this helps. How many have a mutual fund as part of a retirement? Ok, that's three of us. The rest of us, you got, the rest of us, we're in trouble. You're in trouble!
Linn Winters: 11:24 Let me explain mutual funds. Mutual funds is where you give money to an investor on your behalf, and what they do, is they disperse it, into multiple things. So you own a little bit of Pepsi Cola, you own just a little bit of a construction company, you own just a little bit of a high tech company. Be, Because since you've invested in multiple play, you own a little bit of whatever profit, whatever do, they do, you own a little bit of it. Here's the cool part. When you stop being a spectator and start being an investor in church you own a little bit of everything that God is doing in this room.
Linn Winters: 11:58 You become a co-owner. How do you invest in church? You give financially, and your going, "Ahhh, give financially." You know what? That's exactly what you said when you were 21 and someone talk to you about retirement, but now that you're 50, investing sounds really good, right? And I'm just telling you guys, as soon as you get it. That the final exam is, how did you do in growing yourself and others, and how did you do about winning people who didn't know your Jesus, to your Jesus? All the sudden, investing in your church is going to make sense like cra-, your gonna go, "Give me a piece of that. I a-, I'm in, I'm in."
Linn Winters: 12:44 The second way that you invest in your church is when you serve. When, when you just finally say, "hey look, I get it. Sitting in a seat on Sunday and just soaking it in for myself. That makes me a ministry, and not a minister." And so, the moment you get them to say, "hey- no, no, no, no. I'm going to serve in my church because I want to be a part of what God is doing in this place." And I don't care if it's as simple as going over and changing diapers, or holding a baby, or if you actually take your life in your hands, and go over and serve in junior high. I don't, I don't care what it is. But you realize that makes you an investor. It makes you a part owner in everything that God is doing in your church. And if that's true, you ready for this? Then you want to be part of a church, that's doing both sides of the exam really, really, really, well. You want to be about a church that's about growing people up, and helping people mature in Christ. And, you want to be about a church that's really good, at helping people who don't understand Christ, to find Christ. Cause it's the two questions, on the exam.
Linn Winters: 13:49 Matter of fact, grab your bibles again. Go with me back to the passage. Matthew 28 again, and guys here's the deal we're going to spend some time in two passages today. Every believer, these may be the two most critical passages in Scripture for anybody who's attempting to follow Jesus Christ. You should have these two passages underlined in your bible, if not memorized, because they are the two most critical passages, about your faith and belief.
Linn Winters: 14:20 So, here we go, Matthew, Chapter 28, jump with me to verse 20. Here's what it says, "And teaching them to obey everything that I've commanded you." That is that is all about growing them up, helping people move further and further and further in their Christian faith, in maturity. So let me just give you some ideas about how invested your church is in this idea of us growing up together.
Linn Winters: 14:47 One of the things, that is just so purposeful, is the topics we talk about on Sunday. You get that those topics are about growing US UP? Matter of fact, we just did a series, not too long ago, that was called "Friends with Benefits." And, and you may have thought, ohhh you know that's kind of an outreach series and we had a whole bunch of young people coming in trying to find dates, and yeah, yeah, it was, it was interesting. It was, it was an interest- but whoa, whoa, stop and think about this a second. As we did that series on friendship, you realize we actually centered in and had a conversation about one man's life?
Linn Winters: 15:18 We actually did a survey, of the life of David. We plod our way through two books of the Bible, First and Second Samuel. And, we had conversations about, "hey, a really good friend, is a friend, who is willing to say to you the hardest things that you need to hear, even if it risks their friendship. But they love you enough, to say it. You realize, that's not a conversation for a baby Christian? That's a, maturity conversation. Uh, we talked about this idea that a true friend sees what God is doing in the life of their friend, and then joins God in doing it.
Linn Winters: 15:59 That's a maturity conversation. That's what mature Christians do. Uh, we did a series just recently. Uh, it was called "Right In Their Own Eyes," which was a conversation about, standing in a culture that is absolutely dark, and choosing to do what God wants you to do, and sticking with the authority of Scripture. That's not baby Christian conversation. There are Christians who've been Christians for 20 years, and still can't master that.
Linn Winters: 16:32 We did a conversation through the book of Exodus, which really was a survey through the book of, Exodus. See how we surprised you with that?
Linn Winters: 16:45 Which if you remember, not only did we study an old testament book and get in our b-. But a big part of the conversation was to say, "hey obedience is not about it turning out the way you and I want it. It's about you and I simply choosing to obey what God asked."
Linn Winters: 17:04 That is not a baby Christian conversation. That's a maturity conversation. And guys you just need to know, that 48 weeks out of every single year, this room is absolutely committed to helping you and I grow up and get stronger in our faith and live more like Jesus with our lives. It's why we pick the topics we pick. And that's why we have the conversations that we have.
Linn Winters: 17:31 Uh, uh, another thing, uh, that shows that you, you. Guys we are just absolutely committed to growing up in this place. You may not know this. The average church in America has one option for maturity after you get past Sunday morning. It's small groups.
Linn Winters: 17:43 Here's the problem with small groups. Small groups doesn't fit everybody. Some people thrive in a small group. Some people go, "man, that's just the last place that I'm ever gonna go, ever be a p-. Just doesn't fit me." And so you and I have committed ourselves to having five options, for us to go after maturity together to grow together. Not only do we have small groups, which is a great place to go and get community, and accountability, and get into the word of God in a smaller group. We've got small churches, which is a fantastic forum to kind of have a balance between community and just really darn good Bible study.
Linn Winters: 18:23 Uh, we've got men's groups. You know, we have men's groups because there's things that men will say to other men, that they would never admit out loud, in a room that had women in it. How many men go, A-men, A-men? See there's, there's no man is going to sit in a mixed room and go, "Dude I'm struggling with pornography right now, just what I'm dealing with." No man's going to sit in a mixed room and say, "you know I'm lusting after my neighbor," because his wife would kill him on the way home.
Linn Winters: 18:51 There's just no way he's sharing that, right? But he'll share it with other men. It's why we have men's groups and we've got women's Bible studies all over this place during the week. And, we've got a thing called "The Mine" that meets, in this room, every Tuesday night. That is a seminary level Bible study because, because, because, we're committed to growing up. And right now, right now in our church, we've got 2000 adults, who every single week take an extra hour and go to a maturity venue. And because we count everything, and because numbers matter, we are absolutely unsatisfied with 2000 participants. Cause we're not going to be happy til every adult who calls Cornerstone home gets, into a maturity group. Because, 50 percent of the exam is, did we grow up? And did we help others grow up?
Linn Winters: 19:49 Guys part of this maturity thing is that we are absolutely committed to our kids being better followers of Jesus than we are; I mean think about that a second. We are, we are absolutely committed to our children being better followers of Jesus Christ than we are. Imagine, if every generation took on that challenge. If our kids made their kids, our grand kids, even better followers, and if they made their kids. You, you realize in three or four generations you couldn't stop Christianity. And so we're just absolutely committed that our kids will be better followers of Jesus. Matter of fact, you may not know this, but in our student ministries we went back, and we reverse engineered. And we said, what type of a student do we want graduating as a senior out of our high school program? Because we don't want a kid who just simply goes to college and survives.
Linn Winters: 20:37 We want a kid who graduates our program, goes to college, and thrives. And so we said, "OK let's reverse engineer and just, what do we have to do? What do we have to expose them to, to create that type of a kid in our fifth and sixth grade program?" We said, "OK we want every graduating sixth grader to be able to give biblical answers for what they believe." You should be able to ask them the question, you ought to get good, accurate, biblical answers. We said, "we want every single junior higher to be able to have a legitimate conversation, a back and forth conversation, about their faith in Jesus Christ. And, we want every graduating senior from high school to be able to actively, and without compromise, defend their faith."
Linn Winters: 21:15 To be able to say, this is the reason for the hope I have in my life. We want every single professor at ASU, and every single professor at U of A. to go, "Crud, another Cornerstone candidate. They're going to be raising their hands, and opening their Bible in class." Because, we don't just want our kids to survive college. We want them to thrive in their faith, and college.
Linn Winters: 21:40 You want to be part of a church, that's absolutely committed to its people growing up.
Linn Winters: 21:50 There is a second part of the exam. Go back to Matthew, Chapter 28, verse 19. Here's what it says, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations." Now this gets a little confusing because often we talk about the whole maturity process as being discipleship. But what this is talking about is, "hey, help people who haven't figured me out yet, who haven't made a decision of faith yet, to cross to the other side of the cross and become, for the first time, a disciple.
Linn Winters: 22:30 This is about conversion. This is about making a decision for Christ.
Linn Winters: 22:43 Can I just admit to you that this is the hardest part for me? Of the two things that Jesus said, this, this whole sharing your faith, and evangelism thing, is the part that doesn't come-. I am naturally a discipler, I'll walk into a room and there's a bunch of Christians in the room and I'm going, "hey where's your faith? Hey, how's your marriage doing? Hey, are you reading your bible?" It just, it's just what comes natural for me. But this whole winning people to Je-, I mean this is, tough. Matter of fact, I'm the guy, I get on an airplane and here's my prayer walking down the ramp, "Dear Lord Jesus, let the person next to me put on headphones and fall asleep so I don't have to feel guilty about not telling them about you, k."
Linn Winters: 23:27 Years ago, I'm finishing my ministry at a church in Scottsdale. I was a youth pastor, and getting ready to go to Southern California and I'm in my office and I'm packing my boxes and it occurs to me that the eighty kids that are in my youth group are phenomenal Christians. Man, I had discipled them so well. An I, an I, an I, these kids were in love with Jesus, they were passionate about their faith. They knew the word of God. We had kids that were going to go into ministry. And, and, we had other kids who were just going to go into secular jobs but it didn't; their faith was so vibrant and so alive. They were, they were, going to be a light wherever they ended up and you just went man this is a really powerful youth group.
Linn Winters: 24:06 And then it occurred to me, I'm less than two miles from Coronado High School. And nobody at Coronado High School knows I'm packing my boxes. Because, although I had been a great discipler, I had been horrible about winning people, who were far from my Jesus, to my Je-. And, it took me on a journey that said, OK, so how does a discipler take the second half of the exam? How do I figure this out, about bringing people to my Jesus? And, and here's why that's a big deal, because my guess is the majority of us in this room struggle with the same thing. Th-, This is the harder part of the exam for us. And here's what I came up with, because I'm not the greatest evangelist. There was no way for me to do this all the time. So what, what we need to do is I need, I need to bring as many heathens in the room as I can at once. You know, if I can just fill up the room with heathens and then I'll just give the very best evangelism message I possibly know. Hence. Hence, why we buy billboards, and why we hand you rave cards, and say invite your friend. It's, it's why sometimes we do giveaways and say, "hey if a friend comes we'll put them in a drawing for." It's why we do friend days. Because since we know this is hard for you, and it's hard for me we say alright look, let's collaborate, let's work together on this thing. You and me and we'll bring as many of our friends who are trying to figure out Jesus as we can, in the room at one time and they will just give our very, very, very, best message that we can possibly give on that day. And see if we can't figure out the second side of the exam, and it's you and me helping each other, pass the exam.
Linn Winters: 26:01 I tell people all the time, you know church service and Sunday in our church is kind of like Thanksgiving, every single Sunday. Here's what I mean by that, on a typical Sunday about twenty percent of the people who gather in this room still haven't figured Jesus out. So that means right now there's probably about twenty percent of us in this room who are still on the, "I haven't decided about the cross-side of the cross." And we say look here's the deal. It's about helping all of those who were in the room trying to figure out, feel comfortable. So I don't know what happened in your home but let me tell you what happens in my home at Thanksgiving. Uh, we not only have family members, we always have guests. We, we always go to a neighbor or two, who doesn't have anyone to celebrate Thanksgiving with. We, we find a co-worker or someone we know and just say, "hey if you don't have any place to go on Thanksgiving come to our house." So our house is a mix. It's a mix of family members and it's a mix of guests. So there's always a moment somewhere in Thanksgiving that we stop and we say, "hey look, look, look, look, just want you to be able to feel at home today. So you just need to know that all the cups are in that cupboard. That's where they're at. So you don't need to ask. You don't need to fumble around opening all the; the cups are right there. Help yourself. The ice is in the refrigerator. Help yourself just don't lick the ice cubes while you're doing it. It's OK. The bathroom, the bathroom is straight down the hallway, it's the first door on the right."
Linn Winters: 27:22 Just feel at home today while you're with us which is why, which is why, which is why, on Sundays you hear me saying, "hey if you want to find where that verse in your Bible you go to the back start working to the left." Cause we know there's a whole bunch of people in the room that the Bible is new to and we're just going to take time to say, "hey, the cups are in the cupboard."
Linn Winters: 27:47 It's why, you're ready for this? That when we get to big Bible words we stop and explain them. And I know, I know there's a whole bunch of you that go, "Hey Linn, I don't, no one needs to explain to me sanctification. I know what sanctification is." Yeah, but we got guests in the room. So we just say, "hey the bathrooms down the hallway, it's on the right." Let me explain that word to you. It's also why we explain things that might just choke them, words that you and I get, but may really bother them. Words like sin, because here's the deal if I, I stood up in here fifty years ago and said, "Boy you guys are a bunch of rotten sinners." Hey, fifty years everybody in the crowd would have went, "yeah, we are a bunch of rotten sinners." But today, that sounds so judgmental. It sounds like a form of rejection. So when we get to the topic of sin we say something like this, "Hey every one of us, every one of us, has had a moment in our life when, we knew what the right thing was. We knew what God would probably want us to do. And in our stubbornness we did exactly the opposite. We just said hey God forget you. I'm doing my own thing. And you realize that moment of rebellion. That moment of stubbornness. The bible would call sin, which means every one of us in this room is a sinner and all we've done to them, when we didn't compromise the truth we didn't change the truth. We explained the truth so that it wouldn't choke going down.
Linn Winters: 29:29 How many of you ever gotten to a restaurant and realized they didn't have a kids menu. And here's what you do when you get to a restaurant and they don't have a kids menu. You order one of the small steaks. You cut it up in smaller pieces so it's easier for the kids to chew. And you stick a little catch up on it.
Linn Winters: 29:50 You still got your kid to eat steak.
Linn Winters: 29:54 Don't get confused by the smoke and the lights. We're still letting the kids eat steak, it's what you do, when you care about people, and let me tell you why this is a big deal for you and me.
Linn Winters: 30:13 Grab your Bibles one more time. Go with me to John, Chapter 3.
Linn Winters: 30:19 So again, go to the back of your Bible, work to the left and remember I told you these may be the two most powerful, the two most important words, in your Christian, or two passages, in your Christian faith. You ought to have these passages underlined till they're worn out. So, John, Chapter 3, starting in verse 15, and here, look, if you don't like with this passage says do not write me an email, I didn't say it, your Jesus said it.
Linn Winters: 30:56 Here's what it says, about why it's so important to help people find the cross. John, Chapter 3, Verse 15, "that everyone. Who," What's the next word? OK that was pitiful.
Linn Winters: 31:11 All right. So open your bibles, or at least read the screen, okay "to everyone who may have eternal life in," not in Buddha, not in Muhammad, not in Joseph Smith, not by being a Cub Scout.
Linn Winters: 31:43 "Life in him, for God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whosoever believes in him, shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world through, Him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned. But whoever does not believe stands," next word?
Linn Winters: 32:10 "Condemned." Whoever doesn't believe in him stands condemned, already because they have not believed in the name of gods one and only son. Guys, this is a heaven and hell conversation. And you know people who have not figured out you're Jesus. You have co-workers, you have neighbors, you have family members, who have not crossed the cross and this is a forever, forever, forever deal.
Linn Winters: 32:59 We say all the time, we want to make it really hard to go to hell from Chandler, Arizona, from Scottsdale, Arizona, from San-Tan. Because we want to be such a vibrant lights of Jesus Christ that our co-workers and friends and family members can't miss our Jesus, because we stood in the way.
Linn Winters: 33:23 There was a second part of this. This world that you and I live in is screwed up. Have you noticed that? It's just a little bit screwed up. We're all broken up right now talking about racism. Think about this, think about this. We passed civil rights laws fifty years ago. We have passed innumerable laws since then. And look where we are. And you know why? Because there is no law that's going to fix this.
Linn Winters: 33:56 You know what's going to fix this spirit of just anger and hatred and contempt? It's when our hearts change. And guess who changes hearts? Jesus. See the, the answer. The answer isn't. Let's go to sensitivity training. The answer is that people would know our Jesus and be change from the inside.
Linn Winters: 34:18 Guys we're in a country right now that's facing an epidemic of drug abuse and, and, the, the designer drug of choice right now is, is painkillers, prescription drugs, let alone everything that we're snorting, and popping, and smoking, and injecting. And you know, you know why our culture's doing that? Because people have a hole in them that's shaped like God. And there is nothing you can snort. There's nothing you can pop that's going to fill that hole until you figure Jesus out.
Linn Winters: 34:56 And guys that's why you and I have to care about numbers because numbers are people, and people need to figure out our Jesus. You, you want to hear something that just terrifies me. I just heard a statistic that said that twenty-five percent of our children, our children, are dealing with depression and thoughts of suicide. What are children doing dealing with depression and thoughts of suicide? It's because our culture has forgotten our Jesus and guys I'm just telling you. We're the ones with the answer. It's half the exam. Which is why, which is why, which is why, you and I want to buy into a church that is absolutely passionate about building people up in their faith and helping them be mature and helping people figure our Jesus out. Because when we buy in, we become co-owners in what God is doing in the room.
Linn Winters: 35:54 So here's my question. What if Jesus called the exam today? "Pop quiz," what type of grade would you pull?
Linn Winters: 36:07 And, if you'd say, "hey I don't want the quiz today. I'm not ready for the exam." Then buy in, get in. Become part owner in what God is doing in your church because your church is all about growing people up and winning people to Christ. It's bold questions on the exam.
Speaker 10: 36:07 It's caring, about people. Let's pray.
Speaker 7: 36:41 Hey, Dear Lord Jesus we, we simply come to the moment. And here's my prayer, my prayer is that this would be a conversation today that would rattle our worlds a little bit that we would say hey I, I, I can no longer be content to be a spectator at my church, that I've, I've got to be an owner. I've got to be in because my lord already told me the two questions on the exam and I want to own a piece of that. I want to, I want to pass with an A+. So then begin to give. I'm going to begin to serve. I'm going to get serious about growing my faith in others and about people who don't know my Jesus figure out my Jesus.
Speaker 19: 37:29 I intend to pass the exam. And this we pray in Jesus name Amen.
Recorded in Chandler, Arizona.
Linn Winters: 00:47 How you doing man?
Linn Winters: 00:51 Hey, as we get going today just uh, a big shout out to our San-Tan Campus, to our Scottsdale Campus man. Just, so glad you guys are a part of Cornerstone and, proud, man, just proud that you're with us and part of us on the deal.
Linn Winters: 01:05 So. Every once in a while. I'll have somebody come up to me, and they'll say. "You know Cornerstone is just all about the numbers" uh, to which I'll say, "Yeah, no, you're uh, no, you're absolutely right." And usually that gets met, gets met with a little bit of confusion, and then there comes kind of this sheepish, little, uh smile, or grin on their face. And then I say this, "We're all about the numbers because, every number is a person, and people, matter, to Jesus, so you, you better, you, you, absolutely. We are all about the numbers because, numbers are people, and people, matter, to our Jesus.
Linn Winters: 01:48 I, I, uh, about a year and a half ago, I was in a pastor's, uh, conference, I was teaching, a group of pastors in Australia and one of the pastors raises his hand and he says, " you know, do numbers really matter?" And I said, "Yes. Yes. They matter. Because, because, look, look, look. Every person, who's not in your church on Sunday, isn't figuring out Jesus. And, figuring out Jesus is a, big deal.
Speaker 6: 02:19 And a matter of fact, this is, this is, Heaven and Hell type conversation. This is a, big deal, if somebody doesn't, figure out Jesus.
Linn Winters: 02:29 There are, marriages, that are, sitting on the precipice of failure, and you have the answers. You have the Bible. You have scripture, that helps, understand, how, this whole thing, was designed to be between a man, and a woman. And, if they're sitting at home, there's no chance that marriage gets healed. And, the damage that happens, when it falls apart, in the children's lives, that are scarred by that moment. Yes, it matters.
Linn Winters: 03:08 There are teens. Living in rebellion. Who are gonna make decisions, that may cause regret for the rest of their lives. And it matters, that they're not, sitting in your church, having a discussion, about God and Jesus Christ and, what it; numbers matter. Because numbers are people, and Jesus cares, about people. Alright guys, here's the thing you got to know. This isn't just a, pastoral conversation. The truth is, numbers, have to matter to you, because, you ready for this? Because Jesus, commanded you, to care, about numbers. Matter of fact, grab your bibles, and go with me, to the book of Matthew.
Linn Winters: 03:55 If you're not familiar, you simply go to the right, start all the way to the back of your Bible, work to the left; you're going to find this book of Matthew. Matthew is the first book of the New Testament. It's the first of our gospels, the four books that tell us the life and teachings of Jesus. Matthew, Chapter 28; let me, give you the moment. So this is, literally, the end of Jesus' ministry. Matter of fact, these are the last few words in the Book of Matthew. Jesus had are, has already preached for three and a half years. He's already died on a cross, he's resurrected, he's shown himself to his disciples, and now he's getting ready to go to heaven and he says, "look, look, look, as I get ready to go, I'm handing this off to you. This, this now is yours, to do. And as you do this, here's what matters. This is, this is mission critical. So do these two things." See if you can see it. Matthew, Chapter 28, starting in verse 18, "then, Jesus came and he said to them, "all authority in Heaven and in Earth has been given to me. So, so, look, look, look, I'm kind of the boss. See I'm. I'm the guy in charge so I have, every right to say to you, this is what I want you to do. This, this IS the assignment.""
Linn Winters: 05:22 It's coming from the top.
Linn Winters: 05:24 "All authority, in heaven and earth, has been given to me, therefore, go and make disciples, of all nations. Baptizing them, in the name of the father, and the son, and the Holy Spirit. Teaching them to obey everything." So you, you don't get to, rip out passages you don't like. You don't get to go, hey, you know it's 2017, so come on. "Teach them to obey everything that I've commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very ends of the age." Ever had a teacher, uh, give you the, questions on the final exam? Anyone ever had that moment?
Linn Winters: 06:12 I mean, wait, wait, how cool would that teacher be? "Hey we're going to have a final on Friday. Let me give you the questions. Better yet let me give you the answers." Dude, I'm all in, right? That's, that's the best exam, ever!
Linn Winters: 06:29 You get, that's exactly what Jesus just did?
Linn Winters: 06:31 That Jesus said, "look here's the deal. I'm giving you, the exam questions," because, one day, every one of us is going to stand before him in heaven, and we're going to give an account of how we lived our lives. Matter of fact, First Corinthians, Chapter 3, describes that moment. It says, "it's kind of like a fire." And then, everything that I've, done in my life, is placed in the fire. And the things that I did that, you know just don't really matter, they don't add up to much. You know, whether or not, I chose PlayStation or X-box; fire. Right? Just, just doesn't matter.
Linn Winters: 07:09 But the things, that I did, that really counted scripture says, "survive the fire and they come out gold, silver, precious stone." Jesus just described to you, and me the two most important things that come out the other side. And they both involve, you ready? People. Jesus said, "these are the two biggest questions on the final exam. Did you, did you win people to me? Did you live a life in front of people that was so compelling? Were you open enough, with your faith, that you helped people, get from, doubting and misbelief to accepting and to, to the other side of the cross? Was your life about, helping people find me?" And then secondly, "was it about growing people up? Did you grow up spiritually? Did you become more and more and more like me? And did you help others, to grow up in their faith, to become stronger, and more vibrant in their Christian walk?" Jesus says, "those are the two, big questions on the final."
Linn Winters: 08:18 Here's what's surprising to me. I run into Christians all the time who say, "look, here's the deal. I'm all about evangelism." See I, I, I just have this,, natural ability to kind of bring Jesus up in any conversation I'm having, and you know, I'll be standing in line at Starbucks, and the gal will say, "here's your double Carmel Macchiato with foam on top," and, somehow I'm able to say, "Hey that reminds me of Jesus." And we just begin a spiritual conversation, and before you know it. And they go, "but, you know this whole growing people up thing, I mean that's a lot of work, and it's just slow, and it's step after step, and it's kind of tedious. So I just kind of do the part, you know, that comes natural and I always share my faith with people around me."
Linn Winters: 09:05 Other Christians say, "you know, huh. I just feel horribly ill equipped, to share my faith. I'm just so certain that someone's going to ask me a question, or they're going to go, "oh, you know, the Bible is full of inconsistency" and I'm, I'm gonna get challenged, and I'm not going to know what to say. But the growing up thing, man I'm, I'm, totally committed to going to Bible studies myself, and I'm committed to helping others understand that. So the whole growing up thing, I, uh man, I'm in."
Linn Winters: 09:30 Here's the deal. If you, only do half the exam, those are your Christians, "man I'm all about evangelists what I do" or "I'm all about growing," if you only do, 50 percent of the exam. What kind of grade do you get on the exam? See, I don't, I don't know what school you went to but the school I went to if you only completed half the exam that was a pretty bad grade.
Linn Winters: 09:58 You wanna hear something worse. I know Christians who aren't doing either side. They're not helping other people figure out their Jesus, and they're not growing much at all in their own lives, or in helping others.
Linn Winters: 10:11 If you fail to take the exam, if you don't even show up for the exam, what type of a grade do you get then?
Linn Winters: 10:29 Let me tell you something really, really cool. Because my guess is, is that there's an awful lot of us in this room and we go, "man Linn, this is hard, because I was going to tell ya, I'm probably struggling in both sides of this thing, and if you're telling me this is the question Jesus asks on the other side. I, I, I've got, I've got some work to do." Let me tell you something really, really, neat. When you get involved in church, when you become, an investor; no res-. You, You say, "look I'm going to do more than just sit in a seat, and be a spectator at church. I'm, I'm going to be a owner. I'm going to be in on this thing." You start profit sharing. You start being in, on everything that God is doing in this place when you move from spectator to owner. Let me see if this helps. How many have a mutual fund as part of a retirement? Ok, that's three of us. The rest of us, you got, the rest of us, we're in trouble. You're in trouble!
Linn Winters: 11:24 Let me explain mutual funds. Mutual funds is where you give money to an investor on your behalf, and what they do, is they disperse it, into multiple things. So you own a little bit of Pepsi Cola, you own just a little bit of a construction company, you own just a little bit of a high tech company. Be, Because since you've invested in multiple play, you own a little bit of whatever profit, whatever do, they do, you own a little bit of it. Here's the cool part. When you stop being a spectator and start being an investor in church you own a little bit of everything that God is doing in this room.
Linn Winters: 11:58 You become a co-owner. How do you invest in church? You give financially, and your going, "Ahhh, give financially." You know what? That's exactly what you said when you were 21 and someone talk to you about retirement, but now that you're 50, investing sounds really good, right? And I'm just telling you guys, as soon as you get it. That the final exam is, how did you do in growing yourself and others, and how did you do about winning people who didn't know your Jesus, to your Jesus? All the sudden, investing in your church is going to make sense like cra-, your gonna go, "Give me a piece of that. I a-, I'm in, I'm in."
Linn Winters: 12:44 The second way that you invest in your church is when you serve. When, when you just finally say, "hey look, I get it. Sitting in a seat on Sunday and just soaking it in for myself. That makes me a ministry, and not a minister." And so, the moment you get them to say, "hey- no, no, no, no. I'm going to serve in my church because I want to be a part of what God is doing in this place." And I don't care if it's as simple as going over and changing diapers, or holding a baby, or if you actually take your life in your hands, and go over and serve in junior high. I don't, I don't care what it is. But you realize that makes you an investor. It makes you a part owner in everything that God is doing in your church. And if that's true, you ready for this? Then you want to be part of a church, that's doing both sides of the exam really, really, really, well. You want to be about a church that's about growing people up, and helping people mature in Christ. And, you want to be about a church that's really good, at helping people who don't understand Christ, to find Christ. Cause it's the two questions, on the exam.
Linn Winters: 13:49 Matter of fact, grab your bibles again. Go with me back to the passage. Matthew 28 again, and guys here's the deal we're going to spend some time in two passages today. Every believer, these may be the two most critical passages in Scripture for anybody who's attempting to follow Jesus Christ. You should have these two passages underlined in your bible, if not memorized, because they are the two most critical passages, about your faith and belief.
Linn Winters: 14:20 So, here we go, Matthew, Chapter 28, jump with me to verse 20. Here's what it says, "And teaching them to obey everything that I've commanded you." That is that is all about growing them up, helping people move further and further and further in their Christian faith, in maturity. So let me just give you some ideas about how invested your church is in this idea of us growing up together.
Linn Winters: 14:47 One of the things, that is just so purposeful, is the topics we talk about on Sunday. You get that those topics are about growing US UP? Matter of fact, we just did a series, not too long ago, that was called "Friends with Benefits." And, and you may have thought, ohhh you know that's kind of an outreach series and we had a whole bunch of young people coming in trying to find dates, and yeah, yeah, it was, it was interesting. It was, it was an interest- but whoa, whoa, stop and think about this a second. As we did that series on friendship, you realize we actually centered in and had a conversation about one man's life?
Linn Winters: 15:18 We actually did a survey, of the life of David. We plod our way through two books of the Bible, First and Second Samuel. And, we had conversations about, "hey, a really good friend, is a friend, who is willing to say to you the hardest things that you need to hear, even if it risks their friendship. But they love you enough, to say it. You realize, that's not a conversation for a baby Christian? That's a, maturity conversation. Uh, we talked about this idea that a true friend sees what God is doing in the life of their friend, and then joins God in doing it.
Linn Winters: 15:59 That's a maturity conversation. That's what mature Christians do. Uh, we did a series just recently. Uh, it was called "Right In Their Own Eyes," which was a conversation about, standing in a culture that is absolutely dark, and choosing to do what God wants you to do, and sticking with the authority of Scripture. That's not baby Christian conversation. There are Christians who've been Christians for 20 years, and still can't master that.
Linn Winters: 16:32 We did a conversation through the book of Exodus, which really was a survey through the book of, Exodus. See how we surprised you with that?
Linn Winters: 16:45 Which if you remember, not only did we study an old testament book and get in our b-. But a big part of the conversation was to say, "hey obedience is not about it turning out the way you and I want it. It's about you and I simply choosing to obey what God asked."
Linn Winters: 17:04 That is not a baby Christian conversation. That's a maturity conversation. And guys you just need to know, that 48 weeks out of every single year, this room is absolutely committed to helping you and I grow up and get stronger in our faith and live more like Jesus with our lives. It's why we pick the topics we pick. And that's why we have the conversations that we have.
Linn Winters: 17:31 Uh, uh, another thing, uh, that shows that you, you. Guys we are just absolutely committed to growing up in this place. You may not know this. The average church in America has one option for maturity after you get past Sunday morning. It's small groups.
Linn Winters: 17:43 Here's the problem with small groups. Small groups doesn't fit everybody. Some people thrive in a small group. Some people go, "man, that's just the last place that I'm ever gonna go, ever be a p-. Just doesn't fit me." And so you and I have committed ourselves to having five options, for us to go after maturity together to grow together. Not only do we have small groups, which is a great place to go and get community, and accountability, and get into the word of God in a smaller group. We've got small churches, which is a fantastic forum to kind of have a balance between community and just really darn good Bible study.
Linn Winters: 18:23 Uh, we've got men's groups. You know, we have men's groups because there's things that men will say to other men, that they would never admit out loud, in a room that had women in it. How many men go, A-men, A-men? See there's, there's no man is going to sit in a mixed room and go, "Dude I'm struggling with pornography right now, just what I'm dealing with." No man's going to sit in a mixed room and say, "you know I'm lusting after my neighbor," because his wife would kill him on the way home.
Linn Winters: 18:51 There's just no way he's sharing that, right? But he'll share it with other men. It's why we have men's groups and we've got women's Bible studies all over this place during the week. And, we've got a thing called "The Mine" that meets, in this room, every Tuesday night. That is a seminary level Bible study because, because, because, we're committed to growing up. And right now, right now in our church, we've got 2000 adults, who every single week take an extra hour and go to a maturity venue. And because we count everything, and because numbers matter, we are absolutely unsatisfied with 2000 participants. Cause we're not going to be happy til every adult who calls Cornerstone home gets, into a maturity group. Because, 50 percent of the exam is, did we grow up? And did we help others grow up?
Linn Winters: 19:49 Guys part of this maturity thing is that we are absolutely committed to our kids being better followers of Jesus than we are; I mean think about that a second. We are, we are absolutely committed to our children being better followers of Jesus Christ than we are. Imagine, if every generation took on that challenge. If our kids made their kids, our grand kids, even better followers, and if they made their kids. You, you realize in three or four generations you couldn't stop Christianity. And so we're just absolutely committed that our kids will be better followers of Jesus. Matter of fact, you may not know this, but in our student ministries we went back, and we reverse engineered. And we said, what type of a student do we want graduating as a senior out of our high school program? Because we don't want a kid who just simply goes to college and survives.
Linn Winters: 20:37 We want a kid who graduates our program, goes to college, and thrives. And so we said, "OK let's reverse engineer and just, what do we have to do? What do we have to expose them to, to create that type of a kid in our fifth and sixth grade program?" We said, "OK we want every graduating sixth grader to be able to give biblical answers for what they believe." You should be able to ask them the question, you ought to get good, accurate, biblical answers. We said, "we want every single junior higher to be able to have a legitimate conversation, a back and forth conversation, about their faith in Jesus Christ. And, we want every graduating senior from high school to be able to actively, and without compromise, defend their faith."
Linn Winters: 21:15 To be able to say, this is the reason for the hope I have in my life. We want every single professor at ASU, and every single professor at U of A. to go, "Crud, another Cornerstone candidate. They're going to be raising their hands, and opening their Bible in class." Because, we don't just want our kids to survive college. We want them to thrive in their faith, and college.
Linn Winters: 21:40 You want to be part of a church, that's absolutely committed to its people growing up.
Linn Winters: 21:50 There is a second part of the exam. Go back to Matthew, Chapter 28, verse 19. Here's what it says, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations." Now this gets a little confusing because often we talk about the whole maturity process as being discipleship. But what this is talking about is, "hey, help people who haven't figured me out yet, who haven't made a decision of faith yet, to cross to the other side of the cross and become, for the first time, a disciple.
Linn Winters: 22:30 This is about conversion. This is about making a decision for Christ.
Linn Winters: 22:43 Can I just admit to you that this is the hardest part for me? Of the two things that Jesus said, this, this whole sharing your faith, and evangelism thing, is the part that doesn't come-. I am naturally a discipler, I'll walk into a room and there's a bunch of Christians in the room and I'm going, "hey where's your faith? Hey, how's your marriage doing? Hey, are you reading your bible?" It just, it's just what comes natural for me. But this whole winning people to Je-, I mean this is, tough. Matter of fact, I'm the guy, I get on an airplane and here's my prayer walking down the ramp, "Dear Lord Jesus, let the person next to me put on headphones and fall asleep so I don't have to feel guilty about not telling them about you, k."
Linn Winters: 23:27 Years ago, I'm finishing my ministry at a church in Scottsdale. I was a youth pastor, and getting ready to go to Southern California and I'm in my office and I'm packing my boxes and it occurs to me that the eighty kids that are in my youth group are phenomenal Christians. Man, I had discipled them so well. An I, an I, an I, these kids were in love with Jesus, they were passionate about their faith. They knew the word of God. We had kids that were going to go into ministry. And, and, we had other kids who were just going to go into secular jobs but it didn't; their faith was so vibrant and so alive. They were, they were, going to be a light wherever they ended up and you just went man this is a really powerful youth group.
Linn Winters: 24:06 And then it occurred to me, I'm less than two miles from Coronado High School. And nobody at Coronado High School knows I'm packing my boxes. Because, although I had been a great discipler, I had been horrible about winning people, who were far from my Jesus, to my Je-. And, it took me on a journey that said, OK, so how does a discipler take the second half of the exam? How do I figure this out, about bringing people to my Jesus? And, and here's why that's a big deal, because my guess is the majority of us in this room struggle with the same thing. Th-, This is the harder part of the exam for us. And here's what I came up with, because I'm not the greatest evangelist. There was no way for me to do this all the time. So what, what we need to do is I need, I need to bring as many heathens in the room as I can at once. You know, if I can just fill up the room with heathens and then I'll just give the very best evangelism message I possibly know. Hence. Hence, why we buy billboards, and why we hand you rave cards, and say invite your friend. It's, it's why sometimes we do giveaways and say, "hey if a friend comes we'll put them in a drawing for." It's why we do friend days. Because since we know this is hard for you, and it's hard for me we say alright look, let's collaborate, let's work together on this thing. You and me and we'll bring as many of our friends who are trying to figure out Jesus as we can, in the room at one time and they will just give our very, very, very, best message that we can possibly give on that day. And see if we can't figure out the second side of the exam, and it's you and me helping each other, pass the exam.
Linn Winters: 26:01 I tell people all the time, you know church service and Sunday in our church is kind of like Thanksgiving, every single Sunday. Here's what I mean by that, on a typical Sunday about twenty percent of the people who gather in this room still haven't figured Jesus out. So that means right now there's probably about twenty percent of us in this room who are still on the, "I haven't decided about the cross-side of the cross." And we say look here's the deal. It's about helping all of those who were in the room trying to figure out, feel comfortable. So I don't know what happened in your home but let me tell you what happens in my home at Thanksgiving. Uh, we not only have family members, we always have guests. We, we always go to a neighbor or two, who doesn't have anyone to celebrate Thanksgiving with. We, we find a co-worker or someone we know and just say, "hey if you don't have any place to go on Thanksgiving come to our house." So our house is a mix. It's a mix of family members and it's a mix of guests. So there's always a moment somewhere in Thanksgiving that we stop and we say, "hey look, look, look, look, just want you to be able to feel at home today. So you just need to know that all the cups are in that cupboard. That's where they're at. So you don't need to ask. You don't need to fumble around opening all the; the cups are right there. Help yourself. The ice is in the refrigerator. Help yourself just don't lick the ice cubes while you're doing it. It's OK. The bathroom, the bathroom is straight down the hallway, it's the first door on the right."
Linn Winters: 27:22 Just feel at home today while you're with us which is why, which is why, which is why, on Sundays you hear me saying, "hey if you want to find where that verse in your Bible you go to the back start working to the left." Cause we know there's a whole bunch of people in the room that the Bible is new to and we're just going to take time to say, "hey, the cups are in the cupboard."
Linn Winters: 27:47 It's why, you're ready for this? That when we get to big Bible words we stop and explain them. And I know, I know there's a whole bunch of you that go, "Hey Linn, I don't, no one needs to explain to me sanctification. I know what sanctification is." Yeah, but we got guests in the room. So we just say, "hey the bathrooms down the hallway, it's on the right." Let me explain that word to you. It's also why we explain things that might just choke them, words that you and I get, but may really bother them. Words like sin, because here's the deal if I, I stood up in here fifty years ago and said, "Boy you guys are a bunch of rotten sinners." Hey, fifty years everybody in the crowd would have went, "yeah, we are a bunch of rotten sinners." But today, that sounds so judgmental. It sounds like a form of rejection. So when we get to the topic of sin we say something like this, "Hey every one of us, every one of us, has had a moment in our life when, we knew what the right thing was. We knew what God would probably want us to do. And in our stubbornness we did exactly the opposite. We just said hey God forget you. I'm doing my own thing. And you realize that moment of rebellion. That moment of stubbornness. The bible would call sin, which means every one of us in this room is a sinner and all we've done to them, when we didn't compromise the truth we didn't change the truth. We explained the truth so that it wouldn't choke going down.
Linn Winters: 29:29 How many of you ever gotten to a restaurant and realized they didn't have a kids menu. And here's what you do when you get to a restaurant and they don't have a kids menu. You order one of the small steaks. You cut it up in smaller pieces so it's easier for the kids to chew. And you stick a little catch up on it.
Linn Winters: 29:50 You still got your kid to eat steak.
Linn Winters: 29:54 Don't get confused by the smoke and the lights. We're still letting the kids eat steak, it's what you do, when you care about people, and let me tell you why this is a big deal for you and me.
Linn Winters: 30:13 Grab your Bibles one more time. Go with me to John, Chapter 3.
Linn Winters: 30:19 So again, go to the back of your Bible, work to the left and remember I told you these may be the two most powerful, the two most important words, in your Christian, or two passages, in your Christian faith. You ought to have these passages underlined till they're worn out. So, John, Chapter 3, starting in verse 15, and here, look, if you don't like with this passage says do not write me an email, I didn't say it, your Jesus said it.
Linn Winters: 30:56 Here's what it says, about why it's so important to help people find the cross. John, Chapter 3, Verse 15, "that everyone. Who," What's the next word? OK that was pitiful.
Linn Winters: 31:11 All right. So open your bibles, or at least read the screen, okay "to everyone who may have eternal life in," not in Buddha, not in Muhammad, not in Joseph Smith, not by being a Cub Scout.
Linn Winters: 31:43 "Life in him, for God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whosoever believes in him, shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world through, Him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned. But whoever does not believe stands," next word?
Linn Winters: 32:10 "Condemned." Whoever doesn't believe in him stands condemned, already because they have not believed in the name of gods one and only son. Guys, this is a heaven and hell conversation. And you know people who have not figured out you're Jesus. You have co-workers, you have neighbors, you have family members, who have not crossed the cross and this is a forever, forever, forever deal.
Linn Winters: 32:59 We say all the time, we want to make it really hard to go to hell from Chandler, Arizona, from Scottsdale, Arizona, from San-Tan. Because we want to be such a vibrant lights of Jesus Christ that our co-workers and friends and family members can't miss our Jesus, because we stood in the way.
Linn Winters: 33:23 There was a second part of this. This world that you and I live in is screwed up. Have you noticed that? It's just a little bit screwed up. We're all broken up right now talking about racism. Think about this, think about this. We passed civil rights laws fifty years ago. We have passed innumerable laws since then. And look where we are. And you know why? Because there is no law that's going to fix this.
Linn Winters: 33:56 You know what's going to fix this spirit of just anger and hatred and contempt? It's when our hearts change. And guess who changes hearts? Jesus. See the, the answer. The answer isn't. Let's go to sensitivity training. The answer is that people would know our Jesus and be change from the inside.
Linn Winters: 34:18 Guys we're in a country right now that's facing an epidemic of drug abuse and, and, the, the designer drug of choice right now is, is painkillers, prescription drugs, let alone everything that we're snorting, and popping, and smoking, and injecting. And you know, you know why our culture's doing that? Because people have a hole in them that's shaped like God. And there is nothing you can snort. There's nothing you can pop that's going to fill that hole until you figure Jesus out.
Linn Winters: 34:56 And guys that's why you and I have to care about numbers because numbers are people, and people need to figure out our Jesus. You, you want to hear something that just terrifies me. I just heard a statistic that said that twenty-five percent of our children, our children, are dealing with depression and thoughts of suicide. What are children doing dealing with depression and thoughts of suicide? It's because our culture has forgotten our Jesus and guys I'm just telling you. We're the ones with the answer. It's half the exam. Which is why, which is why, which is why, you and I want to buy into a church that is absolutely passionate about building people up in their faith and helping them be mature and helping people figure our Jesus out. Because when we buy in, we become co-owners in what God is doing in the room.
Linn Winters: 35:54 So here's my question. What if Jesus called the exam today? "Pop quiz," what type of grade would you pull?
Linn Winters: 36:07 And, if you'd say, "hey I don't want the quiz today. I'm not ready for the exam." Then buy in, get in. Become part owner in what God is doing in your church because your church is all about growing people up and winning people to Christ. It's bold questions on the exam.
Speaker 10: 36:07 It's caring, about people. Let's pray.
Speaker 7: 36:41 Hey, Dear Lord Jesus we, we simply come to the moment. And here's my prayer, my prayer is that this would be a conversation today that would rattle our worlds a little bit that we would say hey I, I, I can no longer be content to be a spectator at my church, that I've, I've got to be an owner. I've got to be in because my lord already told me the two questions on the exam and I want to own a piece of that. I want to, I want to pass with an A+. So then begin to give. I'm going to begin to serve. I'm going to get serious about growing my faith in others and about people who don't know my Jesus figure out my Jesus.
Speaker 19: 37:29 I intend to pass the exam. And this we pray in Jesus name Amen.
Recorded in Chandler, Arizona.
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